Author Topic: Do you have a favorite in your harem?  (Read 5066 times)

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Offline Patrice Terrier

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Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« on: October 27, 2013, 09:51:50 AM »
In order to create softwares, we are using tools named compilers, they are the core meat of our toolbox.

Shall we use only one single tool, i don't think so, because we must use the right one that would help us to have the job done in the shortest time, and for the best satisfaction of our customers (you know those guys who pay the final bill).

Shall we put passion in our work, the answer is clearly yes, or better to make another job.

Shall we put passion in the selection of our suppliers until the point to select only one, not if you are a wised business man.

On the contrary, if you are not doing this for business, then you can put a lot of affect into the selection, because that would impact nobody else than yourself.

So far i have 3 providers, Microsoft, PC-Soft, PowerBASIC, each of them having different merits for my type of business.
Very soon i was forced to determin what could help me to preserve the time i was investing in learning Windows programming, and i came to the conclusion that SDK was the only common denominator to all of them.

When you use only one provider, you must choose it very carefuly, because you put all your eggs into the same basket.

The recent PowerBASIC story should be a warning for those looking for another alternative.

But like the human race never learning from history, those with blinkers would repeat the same mistake again and again, but we are all human aren't we.  ::)

Thus when selecting only one provider i really think that the size of the company matter.

With several providers, nothing would stop you to have a single favorite in your harem, and repudiation is also tolerated...



« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 06:35:52 PM by Patrice Terrier »
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Offline Mike Mayerhoffer

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Re: Does the size of a supplier matter?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 07:23:29 PM »

Borland , Watcom  and Symantec just to name a few has came and went with compilers. There is a few around and very expensive, like the one you pointed out WinDev and the people took over some of Borland's stuff. I have seen a lot of computer software and hardware come and go since 1980. Nothing is forever. Technology changes so fast these days. I would not be surprised if MS fails and the PC as we know it vanishes.

From 1985 to 2005 (retired 2005) C/C++  worked for me. If I had to do 20 more years of work, C++ would still be my one and only tool on Solaris, other than scripting which is extremely powerful.

My personal advise is do what you are doing, use C++. That will be the common denominator. It is portable, works nearly the same every where it is used. The OS will be quirkier than the compiler.

Microsoft needs to create compilers to make their "stuff".  The Kernel is built with ASM and the rest of the stuff is done with C++. So they should be around and the most dependable. I would advise to use MS C++ Non managed code and stay far away form .dot and any managed code.

I was forced to work on windows 97-00 and all I had to do is learn the API , ATL and MFC , no language barrier there. Documentation I was custom to made the windows SDK look like a winning lottery ticket.

Pb became my favorite tool to make utilities fast and easy - same speed as c and many times faster to code -  no switches no fuss.  I do lot of text related and disassembly and c library for text just stinks.

Fun-Fact - Applications I created from 90-95 still running un modified on Solaris still. I might add with the latest version of Solaris by Oracle now -Long live ATT and Sum Micro Systems. Who would of thought that would get broken up fizzle and drift around.

I see future trends troubling  and not sure how it will play out.  People 30 and under don't own computers they have hand held stuff , they call PCs grandpa's Box.

Many large companies in a word - is looking to avoid Windows 8 and looking at something stable and less wheel inventing

Thin clients is looking more and more promising for business.

I asked earlier to clarify your post, I totally understand now - you spent a lot of years of being faithful to PB , your work is from years gone by is not portable and upset for all the years you spent waiting for Bob to make improvements and Win64.  I don't blame you for moving on change is painful.

I think windows is on the edge of losing it. Every other OS is a wreck and almost every thing they peruse turns to a mist. Window8, rt surface, Win phone is not looking favorable right now. Ask Ubuntu what did to them removing their "start" button. They fell out of first place after 5 years being #1, Linux Mint took #1 spot over keeping the "start" button and this is free OS. Sounds Like Win8 trouble.

I can't say that MS has really impressed me in 10 years and that is sad. Only thing I seen in years that caught my eye was apples IPhone and I like apples stuff less than BillyGoats stuff.,
 
C++ will be forever I think. Not that I like or think it is the best, it is just an ugly standard everyone uses.

ASM should rule.

Can't lose with C++ if windows goes belly up or something else tickles your fancy - you still have a skill set with C++

Mike


Offline Patrice Terrier

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 08:47:35 PM »
Mike Mayerhoffer--

You understood me quite well.

As i wrote many times, i keep dreaming in BASIC, but playing C++ is the price i have to pay, to stay in the race.

Taking back my destiny into my own hand, i was able to produce a 64-bit version in 6 monthes work. I still have much to learn, but i think that the hardest part is now behind me, and the more i learn the faster it goes...

« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 08:57:28 PM by Patrice Terrier »
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Offline Mike Stefanik

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Re: Does the size of a supplier matter?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 08:50:47 PM »
Microsoft needs to create compilers to make their "stuff".  The Kernel is built with ASM and the rest of the stuff is done with C++. So they should be around and the most dependable. I would advise to use MS C++ Non managed code and stay far away form .dot and any managed code.

Just wanted to point out that the Windows kernel only has a few thousand lines of code written in assembly, the vast majority of it is written in C. Microsoft eats their own dog food, too (i.e.: they use Visual C++ to build Windows), although my understanding is that it has some slight modifications from the retail versions. Most of the higher level subsystems and utilities are written in C++. IIRC, there was also an effort made to rewrite some parts of the operating system in C#, but they ended up reverting back to C++ due to performance issues.

Quote
Can't lose with C++ if windows goes belly up or something else tickles your fancy - you still have a skill set with C++

I completely agree with you there. Proficiency with C and C++ will remain very important for the foreseeable future. And even as other languages eventually replace them, there is still an enormous amount of legacy code that will need to be maintained.

Edit: There's a nifty list of major projects and what language(s) were used to create them here and there's a discussion about what various operating systems are written in on StackOverflow here.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 08:59:54 PM by Mike Stefanik »
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Offline Carlo Pagani

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 07:57:10 AM »
If you are targeting multiple platforms for an end user app, Delphi is looking really good right now. I've purchase it, but not had the time to dig into it. It does tick a lot of boxes for me.

Offline Patrice Terrier

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 08:30:54 AM »
Carlo--

I don't like Delphi, because it subclass or superclass all the existing native Windows control (like VB did), causing me extra work to use it with my own LIBs.

...
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Offline Carlo Pagani

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 08:32:18 PM »
Patrice, it is even worse now with firemonkey as it is a complete framework. I guess it has to be this way if you want to port code between IOS/Android/Mac and Windows.

Offline Patrice Terrier

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 08:55:19 PM »
Carlo--

Once i am done with Windows 64-bit, i will start looking at Mac OS, and Android.

But for now, i have my plate already full.

...
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Offline Mike Mayerhoffer

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Re: Do you have a favorite in your harem?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 09:22:42 PM »
Mike

That is not surprising. It is probably grown to much to maintain under assembler.