Author Topic: Future of powerbasic  (Read 212749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brice Manuel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • User-Rate: +0/-0
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2013, 11:48:05 PM »
Quote
the company was always a one-man band
As an Inc., you have to have at least three people on the board in order to Incorporate.

Quote
If someone has a problem with an order, take up with PB and leave it at that.
That only works when a company believes in communicating with a customer.

Quote
If they are slow to fullfill, then one has the right to stop using their products or even cancel an order if necessary.
One can't stop using a product that has been paid for and never delivered.  You have never had a chance to use the product to stop using it.

Quote
But what is being said here in this thread is going too far
What is going too far are those who are excusing the behavior of PB Inc.  Issues like this were to be expected right after Bob died.  It has been 10 months now, there is ZERO excuse at this point.  People who pay for something deserve to receive it.  Perhaps you find it ethical to collect money for an order and never deliver it, but any rational person will find it unethical.  I have always thought you were an honorable and honest businessman who exemplifies integrity and goes the extra mile for his customers, so I am hoping you are not endorsing collecting money and a month later still never shipping the order out.  Think carefully about how you answer as any answer you give will be a reflection of you and your ideals as a businessman and could reflect on your future sales if you are perceived as thinking it is okay to collect money and not ship a product.

I have been willing to give PB Inc. the benefit of the doubt and remain positive about the changes and the chance for a decent future for the product, but it is inexcusable orders are going over a month and not being filled.  This scenario screams deja vu to many people here as they saw the exact same scenario play out when Tom Hanlin took over Pyxia.  People here are worried because of their investment in compilers which may no longer be supported or updated.  People depend on PB for their livelihood.  Heck, if orders aren't being filled in over a month, then the compilers are not even being sold right now, because in order for a sale to be complete, the product has to actually be delivered.  I can understand the concern people have as if I was in their shoes, I would feel the same way.

Personally, nothing would make me happier to see PB Inc. get themselves together.  I still hope they can turn things around, business-wise, but it is VERY clear there needs to be some major changes, as the company simply can't continue the way it is being run now with orders not being filled.

Quote
I have been using PowerBasic for over ten years and have been very satisfied.
Would you still be satisfied if you were not getting the products you paid for?  I have been using PB for 26 years if you go back to Turbo Basic which served me well until PB 2.1 (DOS) was released.  Six months ago, PB Inc. turned into something that is an embarrassment to the history and legacy of the products.  They were doing very well after Bob died, but then something happened six months ago, and PB Inc. has continued to go downhill since.

Quote
Jim Bailey at PB is likely working very hard to get things back on track, despite the challenges faced.
If it is such an insurmountable challenge for him to mail an order out to James, then he needs to do the honorable thing and resign.  Let Vivian find somebody who is qualified to run the business and keep the products going.  You can't convince me that nobody on staff at PB can't figure out how to fill out an envelope and stick some discs in it (heck, at this point, they should throw in one of everything they sell to make it up to James) throw some stamps on it and hand it to the mailman.  You learn how to do this in third grade.  It is not rocket science.

Quote
I don't need x64 yet, but aside from that I have plenty to work with for years right now.
I will keep using PB until it quits working on future versions of Windows.  I will also keep using EZGUI and EZSprite.

Offline James Klutho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • User-Rate: +9/-5
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2013, 12:33:26 AM »
To stay alive Powerbasic needs to be able to develop meaningful updates that people will pay money to obtain.  Based on the previous forum update hits on previous versions (the path to the updates), I could easily convince myself that Bob sold at least 5000 of these every 2 to 3 year which at $100/pop is $500,000.  This was the lifeblood of the business model in my mind.  I can also imagine that the new licenses are nominal and that they probably can't cover the costs of Jim Bailey, maybe some office help,rent etc. and hopefully some programming contractors who will figure out the asm code base and inject briliant new features at nominal cost.  In other words, I am sure PB is bleeding money right now.  So goes the way of the indie developer project.

Big iron software projects have a team in place and if a team member goes away a replacement can be found and life goes on.  I can not imagine a situation where you pay a contractor to figure out the PB code, make brilliant updates and let the person walk (which will happen without the person having a big piece of the action).  Bottom line is that the only business model that works is to sell the company to a brilliant developer with the labor of love to keep the child breathing.  Long shot.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 12:41:32 AM by James Klutho »

Offline Patrice Terrier

  • ROMs
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • User-Rate: +62/-1
    • www.zapsolution.com
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2013, 01:00:30 AM »
Quote
Bob Zale may be gone, but his software still lives on and who knows who may it benefit.

a software that doesn't evolve anymore is a software that is dead.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:03:40 AM by Patrice Terrier »
Patrice Terrier
GDImage (advanced graphic addon)
http://www.zapsolution.com

Offline Dennis Wallentin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • User-Rate: +3/-3
    • VSTO & .NET & EXCEL
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2013, 02:55:49 AM »
Reading Mr Boss first message two times makes me realize that I made a huge mistake to buy licenses of PB and EZGUI in the first place. I also realize it was a huge mistake to make comments into this thread.


The first rule of business is: feeling have no place at all. The moment feelings get involved the business arrangement no longer exist


A customer pay for a service or product. In return the customer expect to get the item. Not only that, a customer expect to be treated as a customer.


I'm a customer to PB and as such I'm both abused and lectured by Mr Boss. At the same time I'm a customer to EZGUI. As a valued customer to EZGUI I will get red carpet treatment by Mr Boss even when the PB compiler is dead and gone.

Is it only me who have the difficulties to see the logic behind this situation? No need to answer as I'm being only ironically here.


The first rule of public Q&A forum: Never write when You're upset. It will come back to You and bite You.


If there is any member here who wants one or more free licenses of PB/EZGUI and other tools I have bought send me an e-mail and I will be delighted to give away the licenses to You.


Maximum two licenses per recipient, only the first e-mail (my local time) will get the license(s).

I can be reached by e-mail, consultx@excelkbx.comx (please remove the x before sending me the e-mail):

Softwares (one license / software):
PB 9.0
PB 10.0
PBForm 2.0

Phoenix Visual Designer (license still active)
FireFly Visual Designer (ditto)
EZGUI 4.0

EZGUI 5.0
EGrid Pro (ditto)
EZGrid Form

My Little Grid (ditto)

Finally, I sincerely apologize for being such a poor customer to both PB/EZGUI.

All the best,
Dennis
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 09:11:07 PM by Dennis Wallentin »
-----------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Dennis

Christopher Boss

  • Guest
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2013, 04:07:12 AM »
Dennis,

I apologize if anything I said offended you.

As far as transfers of the license of EZGUI, read the license carefully. You have to get written permission from me to do so (and for me to do this I will expect the name and email address of who ever gets the license), otherwise they will not recieve support from me.

Also because you upgraded from 4.0 to 5.0, they are combined as one product license total. You must tranfer both 4.0 and 5.0 to the same person, not separately. Any company who allows upgrades always treats the original product and the upgrade as one user license, not two.

Jose,

You can remove my user name from the members list.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 05:44:04 AM by Christopher Boss »

Offline Theo Gottwald

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • User-Rate: +30/-4
    • it-berater
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2013, 07:36:52 AM »
Quote
As an Inc., you have to have at least three people on the board in order to Incorporate.

Not in germany. Once you are one person you have to pay taxes like if you are a large company. The money is then immediately shipped to the large investors in USA.

Quote
You can remove my user name from the members list.

Why should we do that, Chris?
I do not remember that you have offended someone.

Offline Brice Manuel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • User-Rate: +0/-0
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2013, 08:20:18 AM »
Quote
A customer pay for a service or product. In return the customer expect to get the item. Not only that, a customer expect to be treated as a customer.
This should be the motto of any legitimate business.

Quote
I'm a customer to PB and as such I'm both abused and lectured by Mr Boss. At the same time I'm a customer to EZGUI. As a valued customer to EZGUI I will get red carpet treatment by Mr Boss even when the PB compiler is dead and gone.   Is it only me who have the difficulties to see the logic behind this situation? No need to answer as I'm being only ironically here.
No, it is not just you, but you need to remember some people are struggling with the fact that their golden idol has fallen into a puddle of wet clay.  Chris is a good guy. 

Quote
As far as transfers of the license of EZGUI, read the license carefully. You have to get written permission from me to do so (and for me to do this I will expect the name and email address of who ever gets the license), otherwise they will not recieve support from me.
Your license would be illegal in many countries.  Even here in the USA under copyright law a user has the right to transfer the license of a product with no notification given to the company.  Major companies have been unable to enforce the no license transfer clause when it was taken to the supreme court.  That said, Chris makes the license transfer process painless and I am speaking from experience from having transferred the license to EZGUI (which I later bought again).

Quote
Not in germany. Once you are one person you have to pay taxes like if you are a large company.
They tax the heck out of one man businesses here, too.  One thing universal is taxes.  >:(

Offline Dennis Wallentin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • User-Rate: +3/-3
    • VSTO & .NET & EXCEL
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2013, 12:42:38 PM »
Mr Boss,

My advice to You is to avoid creating a legal dispute where international law control it. As Your friends and colleagues point out both friendly and in a hash way; the PB ship is sinking and You will follow it to the bottom of the sea unless You safe Yourself.

I have already asked the person who will get the license for EZGUI 4.0/5.0 to provide me with his address etc. My intention is to provide You with an Agreement of Transfer EZGUI License document in order to set the record straight.


The same procedure will be done for the other licenses and other vendors as well.

But if You still insist that I must have Your written permission etc then You must open a legal dispute against me. If that's the case then I ask You to provide me with the name of Your Business Lawyer as well as name of the International Lawyer that will represent You. You can send it to my e-mail address.

Again, please make the transition smooth and set Your focus on more important business tasks then a simple license issue.


When a ship sinks the first to leave it is the rats. So before You jump out from this forum take a break and let us the rats abandon the ship first.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 12:57:50 PM by Dennis Wallentin »
-----------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Dennis

Offline Dennis Wallentin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • User-Rate: +3/-3
    • VSTO & .NET & EXCEL
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2013, 01:21:52 PM »
Dear Dr Gotwald,

Who are You? My apologize for being straightforward with You.

I have never had the pleasure to be introduced to You. I made a search on Your name and the result was really poor. I must admit that I was quite surprised with the outcome.

What is Your research area and what have You been focused on in Your expertise?

Thanks in advance,
Dennis
-----------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Dennis

Offline Frederick J. Harris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
  • User-Rate: +16/-0
    • Frederick J. Harris
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2013, 02:04:35 PM »
To Chris Boss...

Please reconsider abandoning Jose's Forum Chris.  I for one always appreciate your posts.

Fred

Christopher Boss

  • Guest
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2013, 02:53:18 PM »
The written permission to transfer my software is not meant to prevent the transfer, but it forces the customer to make sure they contact me that the transfer has been made and so I can know who it is being transferred to. Unless that is done, the new user won't get any tech support (I spend a lot of time with valid customers). Also if I do not have a way to verify who the original customer was it would not be possible to verify the new user so they can get upgrade offers. This rule in the license is for the benefit of the new user, not for the detriment of the previous owner of the software. It also protects me from piracy, since a user could simply make copies and pass them on to others, while keeping the software for themselves. If that happens, if a proper transfer has not occurred, the pirates don't get any tech support, since there will be no record of a proper transfer.

In essence, I don't want to be contacted by someone saying "I just bought your sofware from so and so" , expecting tech support, when the original user never contacted me first to tell me this is being done. How can I verify that it was a legit transfer ? How do I know whether it wasn't piracy ? I am strict about this policy.

And if some don't think piracy is an issue, just do a goodle search for Paul Squires FireFly and see how many torrents show up in the search. It is my hope I can avoid this if possible and the strict transfer policy I have does help in this. No legit customer of mine has to worry about making a proper transfer since I don't prevent the transfer, just want it done right. That surely is not illegal and it benefits the new user (who would be very unhappy with the one they got the software from if they ended up not getting any tech support because the original user failed to send me a simple email telling me the transfer was made and to who). I have no reason to say NO to such a proper transfer.

As Brice stated, I won't make the transfer a problem for you but I am most concerned about the new user so they can get the full benefits of the software.

Secondly, software is sold by a license, not by a transfer of rights (meaning we don't own the software we buy, we are only getting it by means of a form of rental agreement so to speak).

As far as my membership in this forum, it is not in my best interests to remain a member anymore.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 03:09:15 PM by Christopher Boss »

Offline Dennis Wallentin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • User-Rate: +3/-3
    • VSTO & .NET & EXCEL
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2013, 08:11:01 PM »
Primo: I have made a post at PowerBasic forum pointing to this thread.

Secundo: The truth is that all I want is to be generous to people who think they can use the licenses I have in a good way. In that way You and other PB's vendors don't lose a customer. Instead You get customers who believe in the products and therefore will be great customers to You and the other vendors as well.

Mr Boss, I don't have any interest in license, Your business and issues with whatever.

Being a guru as a code writer is one thing, being a guru as a business man is a totally other thing. Unfortunately, it's not possible to fulfill these two roles in one person. You certainly belong to the first group.

Tertio: I will make a write up about my experiences with the PB eco system in a blog article. It will be published at my blog which has more readers per day then it exist customer to PB Inc and EZGUI. That will close my adventure with PB and its eco system.

Happy coding!
-----------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Dennis

Offline Brice Manuel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • User-Rate: +0/-0
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2013, 08:34:24 PM »
Quote
Tertio: I will make a write up about my experiences with the PB eco system in a blog article. It will be published at my blog which has more readers per day then it exist customer to PB Inc and EZGUI. That will close my adventure with PB and its eco system.

That will be interesting to read. ;c)

To be very clear, my ONLY issue with PB Inc. is people not getting the products they paid for.  Any previous issues I had were Bob related and simply no longer exist.  I do hope PB Inc. does the right thing.

Offline Jim Dunn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • User-Rate: +4/-0
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2013, 02:44:43 AM »
... previous issues I had were Bob related and simply no longer exist ...

You'll be surprised to find they have a "list"... so... you still exist...

Offline Patrice Terrier

  • ROMs
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • User-Rate: +62/-1
    • www.zapsolution.com
Re: Future of powerbasic
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2013, 07:39:12 AM »
Christopher--

Quote
David, sadly there are a number of members on Jose's forum which repeatedly speak negatively about PowerBasic. I don't mind some going the route of C+ and discussing that, but I find it very distracting to regularly hear things like PowerBasic is going to fail and is going out of business. While I prefer to give the PB team the benefit of the doubt, I get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again about the end of PowerBasic and how I must be foolish to continue using it.

We don't speak negatively of the language by itself, because indeed we all love it there (i have been in the beta team long before you), but what we speak about: is the answer to the question matching the title of this thread "The future of PowerBASIC".

Today it is clear that there is not anymore a pilot in the plain, to convince yourself try to send a personnal message to Jim BAILEY and see if you get an answer from Sarasota.

Those of us who are not the hostage of DDT or EZGUI, are moving on, not because we don't like the language itself, but because it won't evolve anymore, and this is the reason why (for me) there is no future for PowerASIC.
But this doesn't mean it won't serve SDK programmers like you and me well, as far as 32-bit is going.

Added:
I have always considered my programming languages like tools, nothing more, nothing less, no affect there, just some of them fit better to my hand :)



« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:06:36 AM by Patrice Terrier »
Patrice Terrier
GDImage (advanced graphic addon)
http://www.zapsolution.com