IT-Berater: Theo Gottwald (IT-Consultant) > SDK and Third Party Know-How

Using third party addons

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Patrice Terrier:
--Theo

No doubt that EZGui is a good product for people with a limited knowledge of the Windows programming and working only for themself.

But when you do, like myself, a programming consultant job, then you must use some kind of market standard.
And when you must provide the source code of your work, it is impossible to use a third party addon, if it is not itself a standard.

Learning a proprietary syntax, is not harder than learning the core API. Ask yourself, does Chris would have been able to write EZGUI without learning SDK programming.  :)

...

Theo Gottwald:

--Patrice


--- Quote ---then you must use some kind of market standard.
--- End quote ---

PB itself is not a market standard. Nobody knows, what would happen with it,if one day (god may beware of)
Bob would go to his Island in the Caribean Ocean :-).

At the end you are there with what you have.
In some way, the usage of EZGUI and your Graphic-Control are very similar.

You get predefined subroutines from someone who has invested a lot of time into it,
and you benefit from this invested time, because your project is more quickly ready.


--- Quote ---Learning a proprietary syntax,
--- End quote ---

While I agree with you that learning a proprietary syntax like DDT is somehow like a "One-way road",
i already stated that the step from EZGUI to SDK is less then the step from DDT to SDK.

Also people should not intermix DDT and SDK, while there are no such limitations with EZGUI.
I think it is a god sollution to speed up projects therefore.

At the end, PB itself does not provide the comfort of a RAD-Tool.
If you really want to make something quick, you will think of external tools and libraries
wether for graphics or for windows tasks. At the end its a DLL somehow like your product.

PS: If you want to discuss this topic, maybe we can make an own topic in my forum under third party.
I think its a good idea to share different opinions about using external tools.

Patrice Terrier:

--- Quote ---PB itself is not a market standard
--- End quote ---
I do not agree, if you stay away of DDT, PowerBASIC uses a plain BASIC language that is easy to translate to any other BASIC dialect, and even to C.
 

--- Quote ---In some way, the usage of EZGUI and your Graphic-Control are very similar
--- End quote ---
No, because one is a control component (GDImage), while the other produces proprietary code that relies on an external runtime (EZGUI).
Moreover people can buy the GDImage source code, while you can't buy EZGUI's.
When you use a component you can change it to another if it doesn't match anymore your need, but what will you do with your whole code if you come to a dead end, then no other solution than learning a new language.

For me, CreateWindowEx will be always the same what ever the language being used  :)


--- Quote ---PS: If you want to discuss this topic, maybe we can make an own topic in my forum under third party.
I think its a good idea to share different opinions about using external tools.

--- End quote ---

Feel free to move this post out of the EZGUI thread, beause it is more a question of philosophy than anything else.

Theo Gottwald:
For me its not so much a philosophical question as a practical question. For example, I do not agree with Chris, when he wrote me this:


--- Quote ---I also strongly believe that programmers must be willing to do some of the work in writing applications.
The concept of EZ (easy) to use, does not mean no effort. It just means that the steps are not usually overly complicated.
One of the problems with programming today, is that programmers want the computer (or software) to everything and not themselves. I don't agree with this concept. I think programmers should be able to write code and lots of it. The purpose of EZGUI is not to relief the program from coding, but to simply make it faster and easier, also giving him the tools to solve problems.
--- End quote ---


We are living in the time of 4GL Languages. Last week an ex-PB customer sent me an e-mail. He said he is now using a "4GL" language.

He wrote:


--- Quote ---hier der Link zur Visual DataFex
http://www.visualdataflex.com/Home.asp?pageid=569

Das Produkt kostet um die 1.000,- Euro incl. 1 Jahr Wartung und jedes weitere Jahr Wartung ca. 350,- Euro.
Für den Kunden kommen dann noch Runtime Lizenzen pro Platz mit 60,- Euro incl. 1 Jahr Wartung und jedes weitere Jahr Wartung ca. 30,- Euro hinzu.

Eine Visual DataFlex Personal ist frei für non-commercial Zwecke.
http://www.visualdataflex.com/learn-more.asp?pageid=866

Hier noch ein paar Links:
http://www.dataflex-community.de/
http://www.dataflex.info/
http://www.dataaccess.de/
--- End quote ---

Taking a look into Google, I found myself more such tools like this:

http://www.sp4gl.com/

You will never see anything about windows when using these tools.
This is not a religious question. It does not mean that windows programming is forever obsolete.
It only says "There are projects out there which need different tools to come faster from A to B."

As an IT-Consultant, sometimes time is important.

Often when I use PB, the things I am doing are timecritical in terms of Runtime.
For example I did picture processing for a sawblade-manufacturing-machine.
The program has then 20 ms to analyze the picture from the camera and to react on the Beckhoff-Side of the programm.

In other cases, the program must not be that much efficient - but it must be ready as soon as possible.
Both cases need different Tols and different strategies.

We can now discuss in which group most programms today are.
After all, I would expect most htings beeing done with PB is non-GUI behind the Scenes stuff.

What do you think?

Patrice Terrier:
I agree that people should consider seriously L5G tool like WinDev, but this sp4gl thing is definitly a NoNo.

Quick search on Google:

- sp4gl, 864 links
- WinDev, 2690000 links

If you look at their respective web site, you will see in a few seconds that there is no comparison ;)

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